Wednesday, February 24, 2010

HPW: MJ Rosenberg's "Genocide" Story

The number of talkbacks on MJ Rosenberg's latest article have now reached the point where I feel it is necessary to write a "watch" story about it. Before I do, I feel I should point out that though I can see where Dr. Kramer is coming from, I still don't think his decision is wise or moral.

Many of the comments on the thread were attacking Kramer and his views. Obviously, those will not be included here, as Kramer should be criticized just like everyone else. It is when comments took the next step and demonized Israel beyond the facts on the ground that they will go into the thread.

The only reason that Israel can entertain the idea of genocide ["Israel" isn't entertaining anything. Kramer is.] is because our leaders in the United States allow them to. Our government allows Israelis too much in the way of decisionmaking. The president must intervene and guide the Israelis toward peace by assuming more control over Israeli legislation and policy. We cannot allow our client states to commit genocide or carry out apartheid policies.
Of course it would be inappropriate for any foreign country to exert control over our decisionmaking, because we are an independent nation. Israel is a different case. We give Israel billions of dollars every year to prop up their economy and arm their militant groups. Hence, we have the right to dictate Israeli law. This is the nature of how a functioning empire should work. ["Militant groups?"]

"I can only imagine how outraged you would be if a foreign country wanted to exert control over US decision making, legislation and policy."
Yes and that's how Palestinians feel about Israel robbing them of their state, their legal and human rights and their sovereignty!
As for this "one guy". You're wrong about that too. You see there are many who give this guy the time of day in Israel, because in Israel there is a pervasive mindset of total apathy towards the suffering of Palestinians and a poll taken around the elections last year showed that the majority of Israelis would love the Palestinians moved from the Territories! Then there many settlers who actually condone the King's Torah which is tantamount to a final solution!
Why would Avrum Burg write the book "Defeating Hitler" and say the things he says about Israeli society as he perceives it today? He is absolutely right! And he's not the only one who is witnessing this dangerous morally distorted trend.

Does Dr. Martin Kramer's ideas apply to the illegal occupiers of 1947 Palestine?
The program is not designed to give them a demographic edge, it is designed to provide children w/food and medicine that have been intentionally deprived to them because forgeigners have forced them to live the life of animals, without freedom, without liberty in a prison in order to maintain their own demographic edge.
To insist that they be deprived of this program is not just kicking a person when theyre down. It is raping, torturing and imprisoning a human when they are on their last breath. This is sickening.
Basically, he's saying is: "Don't feed the babies in the Gaza gulag. Keep depriving the population of the largest open-air concentration camp in modern-day history of humanitarian aid, so that the old die and don't get replaced."
This is what he's implying and anyone who defends him is just as guilty! [That may be what Kramer is implying, but the characterizations of Gaza is hers alone.]

Aren't the hasbarists always telling us what a marvellous mutli-cultural society Israel is? If you look at this video (especially the longer version on YouTube) you can see the audience is almost entirely made up of white men and women in suits, calmly listening to this speech. That makes the racism even more blatant - all these smug western people telling the Arabs they shouldn't be breeding. It makes my skin crawl.
Also, you notice Mr Kramer makes no mention of the large families produced by the settlers, or the violence that emanates from their communities.

Hahaha, the occupation ended in 1994? You're right, so maybe the Palestinans just want to drive all the jews into the well, or sea, which one is it?
I've heard people say the occupation ended in 2005 w;/ the "disengagement", but 1994, surely you jest?
But unfortunately sir or ma'am, the occupation continues. In international law and cited by an Israeli high court decision (google if you may), an occupation of a territory by a foreigner need not require occupation forces on the territory as is evident in the West Bank. An occupation is when an occupier maintains 'effective control' over the territory.
Dont know what effective control is? i can explain, gaza's air-space, radiowaves, water sources, borders, goods coming in and out, sea-way, etc. etc.etc., are all controlled by Israel. While the vegetable sharon claimed to be fully disengaging, he failed to mention that Israel will maintain control over these aspects. It's quite unfortunate that Isreal sitll occupies Palestine. When will they learn that oppression leads to violence? Stupid Israeli's, occupation is for murderers.

One would hope that you would educate yourself enough to stop patronizing, and start being a human being, St. Cuthbert.
And we are subsidizing a country that is receptive to these ideas? Stop our aid to Israel or demand that they start treating their Palestinian neighbor with some dignity and respect. [How dare Israel allow freedom of speech to people I disagree with?]

It seems this professor never played connect the dots. The rise in extremism and violence in Palestine is directly related to the ongoing deprivation of food, medicine, shelter and more importantly freedom. How many of us reading this can honestly say "i'm free"?
I can promise you one thing, if you're in Palestine right now, not one person can honestly and confidently say "i'm free". Israel has taken every vicious and brutal path to silence the 'extremists', yet they have intentionally neglected to extend equality and justice to these victims. When will the israeli supporters realize that by staying silent, they are in effect, giving a drug addict more drugs to kill themselves with.
Very disgusting to see what Israel has become, but it's not surprising, when you consider the tragedy created at it's inception

Isn't the Gaza Ghetto another example?

"The need to thin the herd" ... nice. You mean a cull. So that's what Cast Lead was all about, its clear now.
I think the moral compass got lost a long time ago, Lisa.

SHOCKING!! Regardless of its median age, a population suffering under an illegal and brutal occupation and/or blockade will exercise its legal and moral right to resist and continue to multiply.
This is another example of an Israel supporter blaming the victims and attempting (albeit, without success) to divert our attention from reality: Palestinians are the occupied (as are parts of Syrian and Lebanese lands), Israel is the occupier; Palestinians are the dispossessed and expelled, Israel is an expansionist state; Palestinians are the oppressed, Israel is the oppressor; Palestinians have hard won international humanitarian law on their side, Israel violates international law each and every day. If Dr. Kramer were really interested in ending this conflict he would urge Israel to accept the peace proposal laid out in the 2002 Arab League's Beirut Initiative - full recognition of Israel as a sovereign state if it complies with international law and returns to its borders prior to the war it launched on 4 June 1967 and agrees to cooperate in finding a "just" solution to the Palestinian refugee problem.

alysheba 3
You don't think starving a captive population is genocide? What would you call it?
I'd call it Zionism.

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