Friday, February 19, 2010

HPW: Alan Dershowitz "Lawyers" the Anti-Zionists on MAM

In his latest work on the Huffington Post, Alan Dershowitz uses his lawyer skills to remark on the Mahmoud al-Mabhouh killing. He concludes that if Israel was the nation responsible for his death, they were completely within their legal rights to do so. You can read his arguments for yourself, I don't need to repeat them.

Naturally, this has provoked some unhappy reactions from the Huffington Posters. They are apparently one of the few groups of Americans shedding tears over Mabhouh's death. I should point out that there were some people who were upset about the alleged use of passports, but that was not what the article was about, so they won't be included. It's still an ongoing fully moderated thread, so there will probably be more comments.

Paul Hackett
Gal416 said "Hamas is not a country, it is an organizition, a killing club."
From the Palestinians point of view israel has FAR less merit as a country than they do since they inhabited the region for the past 1,500 years, while the zionists only arrived in the 1930s. Pre-1930 population of Jews in the region was less than 5%.
The fact that the zionists and the US artificially spirited Israel into existence gives it zero legitimacy. In moral terms Hamas has much more legitimacy for its cause - though not for its methods.
And the phrase "organized killing machine" could much better be applied to the IDF's horrific two week attack on Gaza last year which left 400 children dead and has been deemed a war crime (with the proviso that it may also have been a crime against humanity) by the Goldstone Report - which was headed by a Jew.

ECJLA
As I understand it the difference between HuffPost and a site such as Counterpunch is the ability of readers to comment. It is thought that the dialectic involved in such interactivity provides some kind of social good associated with freedom of speech. Nowadays only the so-called blogosphere provides anything like kind of "unfettered, robust and wide-open" marketplace of ideas that Justice Brennan said was most desireable in a free society.
Here, alas, Mr. Dershowitz expounded on a current event in a way which imbeds a whole worldview's worth of premises, and readers are permitted (through so-called moderators) to frame comments directed only to the "branches" of what Dershowitz presents and not the "root". (My well-wrought comment of yesterday which was addressed to the "root" was so censored.)
This does two bad things. It limits the freedom of speech of HuffPost readers but perhaps worse, it deprives Dershowitz of the actual spectrum of public opinion on his views. Especially on the subject of Israel's six-decades-plus oppression of the Palestinians this isolates Israel's partisans evermore in their bubble of pseudo-reality. Such a bunker mentality is unhealthy.
HuffPost is an admirable institution but their censorship of responsive comments to stalwart defenders of Israel's illiberal creed and barbaric deeds is a monumental exception.
As to the assassination of al-Mabhouh, like another infamous state-sponsored murder: "It was worse than a crime; it was a blunder."
Eric C. Jacobson
Public Interest Lawyer
Culver City, California

LogicalMathMan
It should be beneath any reader to respond to an Israeli apologist when Palestinian lands were appropriated for unconscionable Jewish advancement.
State-sponsored terror is terror and US administrations have been complicit in this endeavor since Israel decided to remove Arab Palestinians from their lands in 1948 and in successive wars in 1967,1973 and thereafter. Also, this is nothing new with Mossad since assassinations have been conducted with impunity and sometimes have resulted in killing the wrong person. How close to a definition of terror must we accept before we submit that this definition should be all-inclusive and not subject to what the US, Israel and Mr. Dershowitz deem expedient?
I wonder if any of these parties have a definition of terror for the Israeli occupation of the Occupied Territories and the recent invasions of Gaza and Lebanon while they strangle Gazans of essential commodities for their livelihood. Close to two million Palestinians have been killed since 1948 and yet, no talk of an Israeli-styled Holocaust. Such hypocrisy!!!

Tasies
Sure, Israel has the right to murder those who they are at war with. Just like Hamas is well within their right to target Israeli leadership. Now, did the IDF have the right to murder and target 700 civilians during their Gaza escapade? According to some contortionists, including Mr. D, they neither targeted such civilians nor should they be investigated for targeting the aforementioned civilians. It's one thing to deny the targeting of civilians by the IDF, it's a much more egregious and bias approach to opine that they should not even be investigated.

karmafriend
The most dangerous enemy of Jewish & Israeli interest is the Israeli government.

Tasies
David, you're assuming these apologists have a conscience. They are programmed and indoctrinated to believe that their beloved state is infallible and that Palestinians are baby eating yetis who beg the IDF to kill their children. The apologists suffer from a personality disorder based on a somewhat justifiable paranoia, all the while cynically distorting and contorting to murk the waters of what is undeniably crimes against a defenseless population and thus crimes against humanity. It is not in their conscience to assume a posture of humility and self criticism.

woodpecker4
To fight against the occupation of Palestine is completely lawful. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians. The Palestinians have the right to fight to get all their land of 1947 Palestine back to them.

AlienPundit
Using Mr. Dershowitz logic, Hamas or any other organization then has the right to kill Israeli soldiers or members of the Israeli government in American soil, or any other country of the world. It would be perfectly legal because of the ongoing war. Mr. Dershowitz is jewish so I expect him to defend or attempt to justify Israel's illegal, terrorist actions. No surprise here. Israel is a terrorist nation and the U.S. should cut all military and economic aid; then we wouldn't have to worry about our national interests.

DungBeetle
Alan Dershowitz and Abe Foxman are both Huffpo contributors.
A couple of very progressive thinkers.
The Lobby...front and center on our favorite website.

larce1948
As a high profile Zionist propagandist Alan does not concern himself with the larger implications of his idealogical rantings. Murder and mass killing is a right reserved to Israel and none other.
As a completely amoral attorney, it only his hubris and arrogance that permit him to speak about morality in any sense.

DungBeetle
You forgot... "all Arabs are dogs"...or was that implied? [To a pro-Israel poster, implying that he only holds his views because he is racist.]
 
alysheba 3
Perhaps you need to read the views of people who live there before declaring Israel a "democracy".
Wisdo
"Most adult Isreali "civilians" could be viewed as combatants in between their tours of duty with the IDF, and most Isreali homes as IDF weapons caches and thus legitimage targets from a Palestinean perspective."
Not to mention the fact that by living at home with their kids these adult Israeli citizens are using their kids as "human shields" by the same definition they themselves use to Blow up apartment blocks in lebanon and gaza. Utter madness.

cj124
that is a matter of opinion. a brutal, oppressive, racist regimen is how some people view them.

Wisdo
The Knesset is an organised killing machine in that case.

brooklyncitizen
Of course this is a rhetorical question (which you answered yourself). Israel does not concern itself with other people's rights; point is mute.

lbsaltzman
The settlers wouldn't get shot at if they left Palestine and returned to where they belong. It would also help if the radical settlers stopped engaging in pogroms against the Palestinians.

pinkibus
Chapter One: the land is seized for military use
In the early 1970's, the IDF built a military base on the land of "Oush Grab," and called it "Shdema Camp." It overlooked the picturesque Palestinian town of Beit Sahour, east of Bethlehem. The IDF's Central Command Commander at the time issued a seizure order for some 54 acres, according to which the land, under private Palestinian ownership, was needed for military security needs. According to the order, the land owners were entitled to receive from the IDF land use fees (to compensate for temporarily losing access to the land), and when the military need ended, the land would go back to its owners. In 1983 the order was expanded to include another 34 acres.
As time went by, Israel built two settlements in the area: Tqoa, built in 1977, and Nokdim, built in 1982, both 5 km south of Shdema Camp.
 [I'm only posting the first part, but he basically writes a large, four part, anti-Israel story that is completely off-topic.]

pinkibus
Momma- Mr. Dershowitz does in fact refer to a definite assassination which has not been proven to be by Mossad but probably is. Mossad has killed many people. it is part of the way in which Israel makes it virtually impossible for anyone to fight back against Israel's expansionism. The settlers are another way of insuring expansionism. The case against Mossad in Dubai is just one more thing in the ongoing battle for Israel to occupy land which they feel the Palestinians and others have no right to. Israelis believe God gave the land to them. And just as God ordered them to wipe out the people who fought them two or three thousand years ago, they feel they have a right to do the same thing to-day..

woodpecker4
To fight against the occupation of Palestine is lawful. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians.



alysheba 3
The illegal actions are done by Israel.
gast1kc
The making of Israel was a big mistake.What can we do now?

DC
Don't know if we can judge the value of recognizing a state. The push for Israel started in the late 19th century. The seeds of it are built on ideas of colonial enterprise. Remember the early Zionist were secular.
The US had an interest in force projection --- establishing influence in the Middle East. This is not a basis of real support or recognition for any group or nation.
Thousands of years ago, man thought in powerful symbolic stories. Not literal readings. Moses had it right about the Golden Calf. Think beyond the Golden Calf, err,.... Israel I mean.

pinkibus
StCuthbert - I have to say that I found nothing defensible about the Germans marching into Austria, Czechoslavaki and so on and the march of Israel and its seizure of land from the local inhabitants doesn't make it above criticism simply because an old myth says God gave the land to the Jews. And if you bring in the holocaust to defend the creation of the state of Israel I must remind you, the drive to form the state was developed before Hitler was born and continues despite his death and the offer of other land to generate a Jewish state. [Comparing Israel to the Nazis]

DC
Mossad has had a policy going back decades, many decades, of targeted killings of those deemed a threat to the Israeli State. This is not specific to Israel. This is what many governments do, including the US.
The Israeli policy has included the targeted killings of even US State department officials. Please note the high rate of "suicides in the early 1950's. This comment is likely to be snuffed out. Too much truth perhaps. [Conspiracy theory]

pinkibus
The least bad solution is the return of land to the Palestinians who are living in Gaza, refugee camps and in a diaspora. One land and no theocracy. Just democracy where all are equal under the law which treats all equally.

lbsaltzman
If Israel was a cvilized country this problem would have been settled long ago.


No comments:

Post a Comment