Sunday, January 17, 2010

HuffPoWatch: Catholic Bishops Criticize Israel On Palestinians

The other day on the HP an article was published talking about a group of Catholic bishops who disagreed with Israel's policies in regards to Jerusalem, and said that they though there should be more interactions between ordinary Israelis and Palestinians. They also called for a Palestinian state alongside Israel, and for peace. All in all, not really all that much to ask, though by HP talkbacker standards they didn't go far enough. The anti-Zionist talkbackers liked to claim that the Catholics were speaking out against "Israeli oppression," and so they were quick to defend them. And attacks on the Catholics came as well: Mostly accusing them of being hypocrites, citing the church's policy on birth control (among others) as well as Pope Pius XII, who many people felt didn't do enough to stop the Nazis during the Second World War.

Most of the comments of note on this thread were simply attacks on Israel and attacks on pro-Israel posters. I also noticed that the "hasbara" ad hominem made its triumphant return among some of the anti-Israel commentators. I guess it was too much to see the end of it.

This is addressed to skialethia, and the other commenters who might find themselves frustrated by the deliberate obtuseness of the Israeli lobby. [Notice the source.]
"The Israel Project’s 2009
[Basically, a long form version of the "Hasbara" attack.]

Actually it's not. Mommamia seems to have modeled her comment exactly on the Israel Project's "fictionary" rather Dictionary which the Lobby uses to manipulate public opinion.
The problem with feigning concern for Palestinian children is exactly that; it's feigned. It's a strategy lacking in authenticity. If Israelis are so concerned about Palestinian children, why are they holding 340 children in their prisons and why have they killed 1441 children in the past 10 years and why are they blocking humanitarian and reconstruction aid for Gaza which ends up hurting the innocent and vulnerable the most?
Actions speak louder than words.

This argument is hilarious. Could is possibly be that Palestinian kids' schooling isn't so good because Israel blew up their schools in Cast Lead - including the UN's if you noticed [actually, the UN dropped that accusation.] - and isn't allowing in any materials to rebuild them or even school books, computers or other materials? Yes school books are on the banned list, or were - the NGOs say one of their biggest problems is that Israel changes the list from week to week, apparently on a whim. (Pasta is also banned, as macaroni is clearly a big threat.)
As to the tunnels, they are a business opportunity created by the Israeli blockade, and have the tacit approvals of all the parties involved.

I would argue that what Israel is doing is not defense but aggression. the rockets are the result of over 60 years of oppression, brutality and land theft by Israel against the Palestinians.

Hasbara not facts.

Even Jews have a moral obligation to denounce oppression and the plunder of land WHENEVER and wherever it occurs! Not to do so is to go against God and/or the universe. ["Even Jews" huh?]
So yeah, that time is anytime while oppression is ongoing!

[In response to a comment that "the Catholic church has never had respect for Jews."]
This is about Israel. Particularly and specifically its government. Not Jews.
Stop hiding behind anti-Semitism. Its tired and worn.

erm no they didnt JacksonJones.
Cliffhammond made a general and on-topic comment about Israels grotesque humanitarian behavior and aggression towards an occupied civilian population. [He actually didn't. You can read the thread.]
Messy_the_baiter countered with an offtopic and rather generic anti-semitism gambit. You backed it up with another irrelevant and rather inane comment.

What about Israelis? Do they have any "moral authority" left? Never mind, don't answer t
As I stated earlier: it's not the messenger; it's the MESSAGE!

Right, you give Israelis all the rights and the right to defend themselves. Palestinians have no right to defend themselves and state-sponsored terrorism, oppression, land theft and vi0lation of human and legal rights! How are Palestinians supposed to defend themselves against Goliath and his arsenal?
Israelis took this land by force both when the state was created and is still doing so.
There is a lot you underestimate about karma and the laws of God. [Threat?]

Rachel Brownlee
But you think Jesus would approve of bombing woman and children, stealing land, blockadeing an entire population, stealing water, burning orchards, ignoring international law (unless it suits them), demolishing houses and applying collective punishment?

It is about time someone stood up for the Melkite Christians who are every bit as oppressed by the illegal and immoral occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem as the Arabs.
They are being ethnically cleansed by the IDF and there is hard data to prove it.
And irony of ironies, U.S. right-wing snake handlers who are convinced the West Bank is the landing pad for the Second Coming are funding settlements, slant drilling under Palestinian wells and the very guns the settlers happily strafe Palestinians villages with regularly. Perhaps they think this is what Jesus would have done.
So it is healthy that the Catholic Church, for all of it's checkered past is at least taking a moral stand. [Another example of a group who *ordinarily* would have no respect from this poster is now "moral" because it says something that he agrees with.]
There are many Jews who feel as they do about the sad state of Israeli right-wing dominated leadership. End the occupation and none of this cross-recrimination would be necessary.

Rachel Brownlee
Never expect anyone to believe in something that they are paid to disprove.
Morning Jackson. How are you today?

With your characteristic moral autism you completely ignore the humiliating and hurtful occupation's thorough repression of all the inhabitants of the West Bank. And the IDF has always fired on peaceful demonstrations. You don't seem to acknowledge how much hatred is implicit in the illegal and immoral occupation and how much hatred it inspires.
Time for the peacemakers to come to the fore. Thank you, Bishops for coming in on the side of love. [That's a new one.]

Only one side, however, has the means to make war there. An appropriate analogy would be Mike Tyson beating up your 4 year old.

I understand, you see ALL Palestinian armed resistance as an attempt to destroy Israel and kill the jews, and not a fight to end an illegal blockade and occupation.
And you believe nothing the Palestinians say.
So you're paranoid, OK. [It's not paranoia if they are really out to get you, Scully.]

I'm sure Palestinians want high-tech weapons and I support them in their effort to acquire them.
As it is, in Gaza they have rockets with exactly NO guidance capabilities and where they land is largely with the wind. The idea that kindergartens and schools are being targeted in Sderot is absurd and easily shown as a fraudulent statement.

There are a whole rafts of explanations available, some contradictory, as to why Hamas rockets Sderot. [Believe me, I would *love* to hear them!]
My preference is advanced weaponry targeted at IDF only.
But that is unlikely given how entirely under the boot the Pals are. [Aw, they can't get F16s? Cry me a river.]

Where were the protests when the whites in South Africa were being attacked by the ANC???
Where were the protests when the KLA were killing Serbian civilians?
When you oppress a people and deprive them of their human and legal rights vigilante justice rises's called resistance to oppression!
Unless there is justice for all....then you can expect vi0lent resistance! [Defending terrorism.]

[In response to a comment that the occupation continued because of PLO terrorism.]
No it explains nothing.
The explanation for the illegal occupation lie in the settlements. They have absolutely nothing to do with security and everything to do with creating a situation which preclude the land ever being returned to the legal owners.
Coincidentally, the zionist agenda exactly..

[In response to a comment that the Church is lead by a former member of the Hitler Youth.]
I see it's bash the Catholic Church day by the Israeli apologia brigade.

"That Pope Pius XII saved 800,000 Jewish lives, hiding Jews in monasteries, convents, and inside the Vatican itself; that he got to the Jews money for travel; that he issued fake baptismal certificates so they could pass as Christian; that he was praised by Jews at the end of the war (by everyone from Golda Meir to the Communist Albert Einstein) as a "righteous gentile"; that his was called by the New York Times the only voice among the silence on the topic of the Jewish persecutions; that the Chief Rabbi of Rome was so impressed by this Pope's holiness and heroism toward his fellow Hebrews that he took his name when he converted to Catholicis
.......ignored in the singular focus on the tragedy of the Jewish "holocaust" is the destruction of Christians that took place simultaneously: not only were Catholics also murdered by Nazis (3,000,000 in Poland alone!), but, at the same time, 15 million Christians were being murdered by our ally, "Uncle Joe" Stalin, much-beloved by FDR, American liberals, and American media.
Where are the outrage, the memorials in every major American city, the Hollywood movies, the PBS specials, the "Christian 'holocaust' education programs" in public schools, the slogans, the defense leagues, the apologies for them? Where's even a mention of it in the typical American High School textbook? Why "the silence"? And why the double standard?"
[Jewish "holocaust" huh? This comment was posted twice.]

Rachel Brownlee
Damn right! (Unfortunately we're not paid for our services though.)

For pro Israel supporters, moral lectures can only flow in ONE direction.

What I am against is the hypocrisy of Israel showing off their minimal effort at charity, when they are depriving an entire nation of human and legal rights, when they are demolishing homes, rendering families homeless, stealing land, blocking humanitarian aid to a people who have been living on the street for ONE WHOLE YEAR [Wrong.], after their homes, schools, businesses, mosques and hospitals where bombed back to the Stone Age! HOME! Why do you think that expression was invented? It was invented to expose hypocrisy! [Speaking against Israeli aid to Haiti.]

Popular will, hah!
Popular will elected Hamas and what did the US and Israel do? While speaking of democracy, overthrew one. [It's funny, because if you look on the thread, he was just claiming that most Palestinians *didn't* support throwing Israel into the sea.]

alysheba 3
Do they support the on-going international criminal activities and war crimes perpetrated by Israel.

alysheba 3
I do understand communion. I take it.
So are you saying that the RCC is supposed to support apartheid, starvation, and killings? How about the beatings of innocent Palestinian children who are only trying to walk to school. How can anyone who claims to accept Christ support these actions? [This coming from a terrorist supporter, of course.]

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